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cgranade
Quotes.
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cgranade From: cgranade Date: June 6th, 2005 01:50 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Curious.

In response to the first point, let it be known that I won't defend all leftists simply by virtue of them being left, but I disagree that the leftist movements in general "don't want us to protect the country." Indeed, my parents should serve as a stark counter-example: Ret. Lt. Col. Ben T. Granade, USAF (also the ex-secretary of the Green Party of Alaska), and Cptn. Mary J. Granade, USAF. They both swore to protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. It is thus that they, like me, oppose the Bush regime. Not because Bush and company are Republicans, but because they stand for election theft (according to the US Commission on Civil Rights, reporter Greg Palast, author Bev Harris and others), the curtailing of civil rights guaranteed by the first ten Amendments (as documented above, as well as by the ACLU, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and others), the imposition of an American Imperialist state through military intervention, along with other undesirable causes. George Walker Bush is a domestic enemy of the Constitution, and thus it is that my parents swore their very lives to defeating him. They didn't swear fealty to the American nation, nor it's sitting president. Rather, they swore their allegiance to the document which defines the ideals and principles of the nation.

As for the second point, I can answer this in two ways. I couldn't decide, so here's both. First off, your assertion that the rest of the world is fucked up is immaterial to the point at hand. I am a citizen of the United States, and thus my concern lies first and foremost with my well-being here in my home country, as well as with the well-being of the country itself. Whether other countries are worse is irrelevant. They very well may be, but that does not justify what happens here. Moral relatavism has its place in the world, but that is neither here nor there. The second tact that I considered taking was to dispute the specific example of French PM Chirac. Chirac has done much to better France, Europe and the world. Specifically, to cite two examples, his opposition of the war in Iraq was a wonderful act of bravery, as was his choice to oppose the draft EU constitution. In both cases, Chriac showed that he cares not for the current global political environment, but rather for what is the most prudent course of action. That France became the target of many ignorant Americans is an unfortunate result, but truly insignifigant in the wider scope of things.

Hopefully this diatribe more articulately describes my positions, as well as my motivations for holding these positions.
From: danidarko Date: June 8th, 2005 09:20 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Curious.

If you read Crashing the Party by Ralph Nader you will find that one of the tenants of the Green Party is the dismantling of the military. Greens are not friends of the military. I really don't see what is so enemy-like about the president--the USS Cole was bombed and many sailors were killed, and Clinton didn't do a damned thing about it. Is that friendly to the military? I think that the current chief is taking matters and giving them hell over culminating events no one, not even Reagan, did much about. Good riddance, as far as I cam concerned.

I had a very intelligent, and very liberal, Poli sci instructor who once said that when not in wartime, liberals are more likely to restrict individual freedoms while conservatives are more likely to expand them. The opposite is in effect for wartime. It seems to be the case right now.

As for France, half my family is French and the country detests Chirac. France does not want the EU Constitution, and partially because Chirac pushed it so much was the reason why it was slammed down. I visited France frequently and I always found that wherever I went (except for Paris but even then it was for the majority like what I will describe) people are very friendly to Americans. France has terrorism problems also from illegal aliens staying in their country. Most French folks are aligned with the US, surprisingly. Remember what the media prescribes to yuo and how bullshit it can be. My relatives, who range from a scope from living in flats in Paris to living out in the country, detest Chirac. They can't name anything good he has done for the country. What good has he done?

By the way, when I was in Italy, we had a postbox bomb go off on a nearby Air Force base and it killed two people, a woman and a baby. Nothing was done about it.

I just don't see the logic behind your conclusions, because with your logic you should be upset with Saddam Hussein and other world leaders who have mangled and exterminated portions of their populations. While I may not agree with much of Bush's domestic policy (about half of it), I am more inclined to side with the foreign policy.

I have a lot of respect for you and I don't wish to change you because I wouldn't want you to change me, but I don't understand your logic.

*handshake*

~dani
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